Idealism - Indian Cinema

[Vishrasayan]

Ever wondered if the Idealism of yesteryears cinema (particularly the 80s) would still be applicable to the current generation? - Whenever I watch the erstwhile parallel cinema like saath saath (Faroukh Shekh and Deepti Naval), which typically deal with idealism in an urban setting….I tend to ponder on the following…



I will limit myself to essentially the Urban Milieu...



Thro' late 70s & 80s the times were real difficult.....the employment avenues were few...and it took a lot of conviction to stay clean and not get corrupted....consequently, idealism was a kind of romance, a challenge to self...it needed sheer guts to stay clean and not get corrupted by the filthy system...and films depicted just that....most protagonists were kindo' willing sufferers who'd bend for nothing..



in these days of ample opportunity (pls remember...I am only talking about the urban populace..), what exactly is idealism and does one need great conviction & make great personal sacrifices to be idealistic? – ‘not necessarily’ is what I feel... it is much more easier.....one need not suffer...one can be squeaky clean and still earn big bucks! Does it mean that the benchmark for idealism is much higher now?



Are the current crop of cross-over (new age word of parallel cinema?..) & Target-NRI films able to showcase this aspect....I understand that I am mixing up real life idealism & reel idealism here.., but I also like to think that each influences the other & hence can be discussed in the same breath..



it would be interesting to get inputs on these lines... going by the response to the recent thread on Rang de basanti.. I am sure we can take the discussion further from here....

[Peter Camenzind]

When it comes to idealism in indian films....

Maniratnam comes to my mind.... as the lead roles in his films reflects that idealistic behaviour ( like in the film Yuva )



Recently I have read a news article in Times of India ( I didn't remember the date... I will provide that news soon with the url..) that says ..5 IIT graduates recently entered into politics leaving their highly paid jobs....

isn't that great.... ???

[Vishrasayan]

thats a good start.... one can only hope that power doesn't corrupt them too...



now back to Idealism....

[CtrlAltDel]

IMO, there is no scope for any "idealism", as depicted in the old movies, today.



the ample opportunity to make big bucks while staying clean with a respectable job has had 2 consequences:



1) one does not feel guilty about earning wealth. once upon a time in the dark socialist times, poverty or deprivation was the quality of the hero and the public were encouraged to be 'content' with what they had. aspiring for riches was frowned upon as corrupting and decadent.



2) in the current times, most people have immense opportunity to spend their earnings as they see fit. saving is no longer seen as the virtue it used to be. as a result there is no guilt in throwing around money either.



the idealism as seen in the old movies glorified the 'loser' status of the protagonists. this cannot be acceptable in todays scenario where success and wealth is what everyone wants.



the new formula for idealism in movies is more like a mixture of getting a good job with a fat pay packet, paying taxes regularly, contributing to social causes, spend and have fun (without harming others).

[Vishrasayan]

my feelings exactly CAD.... however, I am not too sure of the 'guilt' part..



at my age may be its too early to talk of self- actualization, but at times, I feel our role in the society should be a little beyond our family and friends…may be the middleclass upbringing, may be the exposure to life in mofussils, may exposure to my wife’s NGO ethos, but many a time, the poverty around me makes me feel a tad guilty while spending around... may be this is one reason I don't visit 10D as frequently as I would luv to



We (I and better half) try and compensate for this feeling by contributing to some social cause whatever we could & by taking good care of the underprivileged with whom we get in to contact (the likes of servant maids & other service population) by helping in their education, health etc... funnily so.., but also by having strong personal opinion/ stand on various issues…political and societal..



Some of the films now a days are reflecting this trend to some extent...particularly the Mainstream cinema like of Swades in moderation and RDB in its extreme...of course in the cross-over it is getting more defined...I am not too sure though whether the depiction of 'socially sensitive' protagonist spurs the viewer too to become one..or it merely soothes the viewers’ guilt pangs within the confines of the multiplex...



Given the innumerable non-controllables' & defaults in the world today, striking a balance between enjoying life and being a sensitive member of the society is what I feel is the closest to being fairly idealistic for the current crop of urban yuppies, dinks, discs & others....



Or may be as you said the word idealism itself can be junked & we can coin some other word to describe the above existence…. How does “Humane capitalism” sound?



I am sure there are a lot of other opinions here...

[Vishrasayan]

where's everyone?

[rock_26iin]

I don't have much to say on the topic except as has already been pointed out, the concept of the Ideal has changed. It is no longer the person who throws his heart, soul and wealth (tan, man, dhan) into helping the needy. According to GeNext, having some time to yourself, for your own enjoyment is not a crime, it is alright to do such stuff as long as you manage to find a balance between the party time, your work and your social obligations and duties.



The Ideal person today, is the one who has a good time and to the best of his ability makes others have a good time. Society is no longer given that much importance, called it modernization, call it breaking of the mould, it all results to the same thing. Today's generation realizes that times are changing and it is supposed to change with them. Only, they are trying not to lose their roots in the process



Again, the point of balance comes into the picture, it is all about establishing a proper balance in ones life. When you talk of celluloid idealism, as I said, times are changing and people are changing with them. Remember, that people who make these movies are also people like me and you, and their aim is to make a profit and so they will make something which sells commercially. And what people enjoy is what sells commercially. See the point I'm trying to make? (coz i dont)

[Vishrasayan]

Amazing rock!.. excellent clarity of thoughts at 17yrs...but believe me, concepts change as you get exposed to life more...



CAD and you seem to agree to a large extent that the current day ideal is "I before U" plus a little bit of feel good social obligation....Not that I disagree becos that’s what majority of us do..., but do not forget the people who willingly sacrifice a great career to serve the community - if you search you'll find thousands of such people..for them it is 'U before I' or plain 'V' (We)



Let me clarify, I am not saying that the 'U before I' should be the aspirational behavior for the whole population - heck no ! - Idealists have always been unique & few - But one should not over-generalize and say there is nothing such as idealism in the world today.



I wish to understate the fact that, even in the current society selfless Idealists do exist - only that the core of their idealism is changing - for one it is not guided solely by the "dark socialistic" principles, as CAD put it and is more global in outlook & more inclusive than before (by not alienating the rich/ well-off)



and rock... I see ur point about cinema showing what viewer wants...but I would limit that to the casting - take the case of Swades....The director took care of the commercial angle by casting Shahrukh, but essentially told his story and propagated his message - which not all NRIs & aspirant NRIs may necessarily are comfortable with....but still there is an honest appeal. I wish to look at the glass as half full here..



Now, if only we get a few more viewpoints, this would become a real debate...

[BRB HP]

I'll be here soon with something worth posting. Right now, am short of time.

[HH]

Real Life "Public" / "Private" + "Saint" / "Satan" >>>> Options Observed For People ... REEL Life Tries To Mirror This ... The Producers / Others ... Make Their Money / Business ... Out Of This!

[rock_26iin]

and rock... I see ur point about cinema showing what viewer wants...but I would limit that to the casting - take the case of Swades....The director took care of the commercial angle by casting Shahrukh, but essentially told his story and propagated his message - which not all NRIs & aspirant NRIs may necessarily are comfortable with....but still there is an honest appeal. I wish to look at the glass as half full here..

And pray tell me the social message the writer wanted to convey in movies like Zeher, Aashiq Banaya Apne etc.? The point I was trying to make is that all these lovey-dovey movies with a small twist in tail sell nowadays and therefore are made in bulk.



As you said, idealists today are a major minority (ehehe), so to them, the casting doesnt matter as much as the story. Agreed that Aamir and Sharukh were cast in Swades and Rang De Basanti essentially for the power the hold in Indian cinema today, but I would not limit the commercialisation only to the casting. Even the story portrayed in a movie is what people like to see.

[akhilis2cool]

Ever wondered if the Idealism of yesteryears cinema (particularly the 80s) would still be applicable to the current generation? - Whenever I watch the erstwhile parallel cinema like saath saath (Faroukh Shekh and Deepti Naval), which typically deal with idealism in an urban setting….I tend to ponder on the following…

I will limit myself to essentially the Urban Milieu...

Thro' late 70s & 80s the times were real difficult.....the employment avenues were few...and it took a lot of conviction to stay clean and not get corrupted....consequently, idealism was a kind of romance, a challenge to self...it needed sheer guts to stay clean and not get corrupted by the filthy system...and films depicted just that....most protagonists were kindo' willing sufferers who'd bend for nothing..

in these days of ample opportunity (pls remember...I am only talking about the urban populace..), what exactly is idealism and does one need great conviction & make great personal sacrifices to be idealistic? – ‘not necessarily’ is what I feel... it is much more easier.....one need not suffer...one can be squeaky clean and still earn big bucks! Does it mean that the benchmark for idealism is much higher now?

Are the current crop of cross-over (new age word of parallel cinema?..) & Target-NRI films able to showcase this aspect....I understand that I am mixing up real life idealism & reel idealism here.., but I also like to think that each influences the other & hence can be discussed in the same breath..

it would be interesting to get inputs on these lines... going by the response to the recent thread on Rang de basanti.. I am sure we can take the discussion further from here....

I dealism is very much existant in todays movies, except for a few movies like say, chocolate, where the protagonists get away with theft. The fact is that the number of movies being made yearly is so high, as compared to the 80's, that it all comes down to who is able to lure the the movie goers into watching his movie, this is where the so called idealistic movies are forgotten quickly. But even in the sleazy movies made by the likes of vikram bhat the concept of 'burai par achchai ki jeet' still holds true.

[gyanster]

This is an excellent topic raised by Vishrasayan.

While movies hold a considerable amount of sway over Indians' psyche and thinking, unfortunately they have come down to these portraying what is happening today with India rather than a message for the youth. Just watch D Company, Apaharan and Sarkar. They show what is wrong and show a silly/unreal way to combat it. Result: Not much motivation for the youth, maybe negative as this shows them how bad things are..

[CtrlAltDel]

i think there is some confusion regarding "Idealistic" and "Moralistic" movies here. there is a thin line seperating them, bt the difference is there. the victory of good over evil and all that has nothing to do with idealism, but is just a moral tale.



even gyanster's examples talk about the same morality aspectt.

[Vishrasayan]

I agree... moralistic posturing is convenient as it is frame specific - if you see the likes of Zeher, the guy after having loads of fun (the audience too.) gets tamed down at the end, and cuddles wup to the true luv (possibly with jus' one more hot kiss..) no sweat here for the producer...no risk whatsoever



Idealism is different - it pervades the whole script...there is considerable risk for the producer here as the viewer could brand the film as pheeka



and yes, we are discussing idealism in films here..

[Moviebuff HP]

in these days of ample opportunity (pls remember...I am only talking about the urban populace..), what exactly is idealism and does one need great conviction & make great personal sacrifices to be idealistic? – ‘not necessarily’ is what I feel... it is much more easier.....one need not suffer...one can be squeaky clean and still earn big bucks! Does it mean that the benchmark for idealism is much higher now?

I wouldn't say that the benchmark is higher today. Rather than being a unidirectional entity, idealism is multi-dimensional, thus covering different aspects of life. And onscreen idealism being the mirror image of real life idealism, its plane changes with times. In the 70's and 80's, Urban India was coming to terms with several aspects of life viz. changing a sudden change in the socio-political scenario both locally as well as internationally; the need for a better standard of living; unemployment among the skilled class etc. Today's urban India is struggling to cope up with lifestyle based disorders, religious intolerance, terrorism and the information invasion among other things. Man has developed a kind of immunity against the tumult he was facing in the last couple of decades and that to him is a part of life today. And this cycle of changes will go on.



The movies that do depict idealism do so on the issues relevant today. For example, you see Yuva making a statement on the political scenario; Dev on the religious intolerance; My Brother Nikhil on the plight of HIV infected people & AIDS victims and Yahaan on the issue of terrorism. And I've touched only Bollywood. Vernacular cinema in India is much more progressive and vocal on issues. So, although the perspective has changed, idealism still remains an integral part of Indian Cinema.



One unfortunate thing that has happened though is that many producers & directors have strayed down the path of blatant commercialism after having made their mark with some strong movies. We have Yash Chopra who has slipped down many rungs of the ladder from the days of the most powerful Good v/s. Evil saga of our times (Deewar) and a movie highlighting the cause of miners working under deplorable conditions in Bihar (Kala Patthar). Today's Yash Chopra is asociated with Candyfloss romances. Rajkumar Santoshi who gave us the hard hitting Damini dishes out mediocre and mundane stuff like Family nowadays. Even Shyam Benegal with masterpieces like Manthan and Ankur to his credit has to stoop down to fare like Zubeida. And how can we forget the Mahesh Bhatt of Saransh, Arth, Janam & Naam, who seems to be trapped in a time-warp (back to his adolescent age).



More later....

[Vishrasayan]

very good insight HP..... I agree with your observation on the bench mark for idealism..

[Miffed HP]

This deserves to be on the front page more than those silly threads all having similar discussions about RSS conspiracy theories and identities of posters.

[CtrlAltDel]

yes, some sensible discussion is always welcome! i hope others contribute to this thread too.

[Vishrasayan]

Hello ppl, check out http://confessionsofafilmmaker.blogspot.com/

[rama krishna]

the same old bull shit stories