Hate campaigns, propoganda....haven't we seen enough of it?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Browsing through the pro and anti sonia threads on the site, I was just pondering over the rationale of the mindless hate campaigns going on in our country. This may be a long rant...but I'm typing as I think and this is from the bottom of my heart.



We've matured quite a bit both as a republic as well as a democracy. While saying this, we have to appreciate the fact that more than 50 years and we're still one country. We do have a lot of diverse viewpoints...but in the end, we've displayed our steely resolve to stay united often enough to make the world stand up and notice.



Skeptic, a new member mentioned about misplaced passions. A very good point. History is full of examples where visionaries have been castigated, discoveries have been muted and movements subdued because of mass hysteria and mob psychology. A sneak peek into how many misconceptions the political class has been bombarding us with :



1984 - It was just after Indira's assasination and I remember how sikhs were running for cover. There were a couple of classmates of mine (5th standard kids, mind you) who were clueless as the Kesh, which is one of the 5 essential accompaniments of a sikh, was pariah all of a sudden. I fail to understand why his father, a gentle and pious man, who worked as a foreman in Escorts was being victimised for the murder of Indira.



1989-90 - I was in my 10th and Rajiv Gandhi had just been ousted. The campaign for the 89 elections was going in full swing. My entire class wanted to vote BJP if they could as they felt that muslims were taking away what was their right and that the BJP would be the party that would send them to their rightful place - Pakistan or Heaven.



1991 - I remember the time when I was in my +2. Babri Masjid was fresh and there was a lot of anti-muslim hysteria. I remember an uncle of mine, who is a hardcore RSS swayamsevak, saying then that the freedom that muslims have in terms of being polygamous is the reason why India's population has exploded the way it has. This is something that has been a staple part of the RSS indoctrination.



1992 - My first brush with the religious conversion issue. The same uncle was at my place, after my 12th board exams, trying to explain to my mom and dad that St.Xavier's was not a good school as they indulge in covert conversion. He went on to claim that the missionaries in tribal areas convert people at gunpoint.



1996-2004 - The congress governments post Shastri were utterly corrupt. Agreed. Congress had nothing to show for leadership. Correct. 50 years of congress rule didn't give the country what it really deserved. No doubt about it. But believe me, 8 years of BJP driven rule has given us worse than everything in the past 50 years put together. On the face of it, India is Shining, rural stagnation notwithstanding. But deep down, the situation is different. Take into account the flagrant meddling with IIM's (Mind you, they are institutions that are the defacto face of Indian education around the world). Or look at the rewriting of history books. This was the cultural police acting at its terrorising worst. This was forcing the Sangh viewpoint on the entire polity. It doesn't end here. The mere thought of Gujarat sends a chill down my spine. I witnessed it first hand. Comparing Modi with Hitler wasn't that wrong. Talk about democracy anyone?



The hate goes down deeper. How would you react if I told you that people with centrist or leftist leanings have been kept away from joining the administrative, foreign, revenue and police services over the past few years. A friend of mine, who recently attempted for an ICSR fellowship was spurned just because he did not approve of the Sangh stand on the Ayodhya issue and spoke strongly on it. There has been a systematic infiltration of all govt. departments in recent years by ultra right wingers. The virus has already been spread on the grassroots level. An example is the Gujarat police. In a state where there is a sizeable muslim population (almost 20%), their representation in the police force is marginal (less than 1%). And 18% of the police force (38% below the Sub-Inspector ranks) are RSS swayamsevaks.



As I've mentioned in a previous post, the mandate for this election was more against the BJP rather than for the congress. I sincerely feel that we should respect that fact and accept that the NDA govt. failed on several crucial fronts. We have to accept that the nation has called for a change. Its high time we stopped cribbing on non-issues (Sonia Gandhi's foreign origin - and I've already explained why I call it a non issue. Check my posts here) and give the new govt. a fair chance.

[akhilis2cool]

I dont think Soina Gandhis foriegn origin issue is a non-issue just yet. other wise why do u think she refused the PMs post after coming so close. ???



any way I do agree with ur views abt the sangh parivar to a certain extent.



but I have heard that in the north east the RSS workers are shot dead often by people supporting the missionaries....dont know how true it is though.

[CtrlAltDel]

I always maintained that any religious fanaticism or extremism is a pain in the wrong places for any country.

i strongly believe that world peace can be achieved only if all people stop taking religion too seriously and allow it to govern their life.

Religion is ok as long as its private and personal, else the followers make it pure evil.

if i agree with Marx (Karl, not Groucho/Harpo!) on anything, its his statement that "Religion is the opium of the masses"

I am not an athiest, but i dont let my religion interfere in my thots n daily life.

regarding Sonia, the opposition has nothing to do with religion. she is yet to prove herself in the public sphere. she is a potential PM only coz of her cursed surname. she has done nothing to show her indian-ness. thats why i oppose her.

if some foreign born person like Mother Teresa (or Annie Basent) had tried to become PM, no one in his/her right mind wud've oppossed.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

if some foreign born person like Mother Teresa (or Annie Basent) had tried to become PM, no one in his/her right mind wud've oppossed.

This is exactly my point. I personally am against Sonia being the PM as I feel she is not competent enough for the post. The foreign origin issue is just a mishmash. When nobody had a problem with her being the Leader of Opposition, there shouldn't be any opposition to her being PM too. For those who talked about the Leader of Opposition not being privy to sensitive info, we live in an age of coalitions and the opposition is a part of every decision taken. Remember the last 4-5 PM's ranting about consensus?

[CtrlAltDel]

For those who talked about the Leader of Opposition not being privy to sensitive info, we live in an age of coalitions and the opposition is a part of every decision taken. Remember the last 4-5 PM's ranting about consensus?

the opposition is never a part of the ruling coalition, thats why they are the opposition. and the last few PMs were just ranting about consensus because the idea sounds ideal.

it was never practised. in sensitive decisions the cabinet almost never consult the opposition. at most they inform the oppn. leader abt their decision, before the announce it to the world.

even the oppn, know this and dont vocally insist on being privy to everything the cabinet discusses.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Point well taken sir.

[black wizard]

will u guys give it a rest...this whole politics thing is getting a bit monotonous

[CtrlAltDel]

...this whole politics thing is getting a bit monotonous

really? its making me salivate...

[IdontDiscriminate]

habitual, i think you are completely wrong with some of your views. Talking about sonia gandhi, I would have been completely outraged if she had been the PM of our country. No matter what people my think and no matter how liberal we are, a great country with a billion people will hang it's head in shame to have a person of foriegn origin in the country's premier post, not to mention the fact that she is not even near being qualified for that post.Having a Gandhi attached to her name does not qualify her to become the PM. You say that people did not mind her being the opposition party leader...personally I don't see any relation between her being a PM and her being an opposition leader.The former presides over a band of MPs and party workers.......my two cents to that, the latter leads the country, represents the country.......and I would want to make sure that the person who's representing my country is a true countryman.

Donning a khadee saree and going out among the poor does not make her an Indian.



Eight years of BJP rule did worse things for the country? people voted against BJP instead of for CONGRESS? If I am not mistaken congress as a party got just 7 seats more than BJP.Alliances are a different thing alltogether.

You mention Gujrat, I still remember Punjab during the congress rule......

still they got back to power did'nt they?

They got back to power simply because of their outrageous promises

both at the central level and at the state level.Pro-Farmer, Pro-poor?

reservations in the private sector?

makes me laugh.......the only reason people pick on BJP is because they have a hindu agenda.does trying to appease the majority make a party a fundamentalist?in my opinion NO.

what happened in gujrat was sad but so was godhra.

what happened to the sikhs in 84 was sad, and so was what happened to indira gandhi.

I am not trying to support these killings, but you have to agree that we live in a highly sensitive country where people are very emotional.these things tend to happen.it's the people and not the parties that are to blame.If you look back India was doing good under BJP.rural areas were always stagnating, even under congress. congress just tries to appease them temporarily by declaring packages that are a big burden on the country.how long will the tax-paying middle class pay up for the non-tax paying poor and farmers?

Even in our state we have congress coming to power by announcing free power.who is going to pay up for that?the earning class.get a life folks........CONGRESS as a party died the day Gandhiji was assassinated.

it got worse with every generation of the Nehru dynasty.

[Secularist]

Anybody explain what happned in Gujrat? Godhara? What the movie Dev, of Amitabh's claims is true? Hindus are really bad. Very bad.. in the movie. Being the majority, most just cannot think of the minority's problems. They can think of only themselves and their religion, unlike Muslims. Muslims think of their own selves last. Some handful Hindus are there who can think for the other minorities, like Amitabh and Govind Nihalani and some people here on these boards. Keep it up.



India needs such people. India is a secular country and it should remain so. Otherwise it hurts Muslim brethern very much as they showed in the movie.

[The Rainmaker]

I always maintained that any religious fanaticism or extremism is a pain in the wrong places for any country.
i strongly believe that world peace can be achieved only if all people stop taking religion too seriously and allow it to govern their life.
Religion is ok as long as its private and personal, else the followers make it pure evil.

regarding Sonia, she is a potential PM only coz of her cursed surname. she has done nothing to show her indian-ness. thats why i oppose her.

CAD, i agree with you whole-heartedly on this issue. It's wrong to blame the RSS alone -- there are organisations like SIMI and Co. that carry out the same with an anti-national tinge to it. all in all, religion shouldn't be made a reason to vote for any party.



Ditto about your views on Sonia. She was not the rightful heir to the throne, bas.

[The Rainmaker]

Talking about sonia gandhi, I would have been completely outraged if she had been the PM of our country. a great country with a billion people will hang it's head in shame to have a person of foriegn origin in the country's premier post, not to mention the fact that she is not even near being qualified for that post.

congress as a party got just 7 seats more than BJP.

CONGRESS as a party died the day Gandhiji was assassinated. it got worse with every generation of the Nehru dynasty.

i think the sonia issue is done and dusted... she doesnt deserve so much attention from us!



and yes, the congress didnt Win this election. the vote percentage of the congress fell by 2% in this election, while the BJP's fell by 1.5%.

[CtrlAltDel]

Being the majority, most just cannot think of the minority's problems. They can think of only themselves and their religion, unlike Muslims. Muslims think of their own selves last.

sorry...i havent seen any instances of that at anytime...in fact believers of all religions think abt their own first...and that is the cause of the rot in this country and this world. tho i am not an athiest, there are times when i really wish there was no religion n no concept of God in this world.

[Dedh_Quintal]

The Rot in the country is due to indifference.



How many are affected when greasing the palms of a peon ?



How many are affected when in a Mosque or Temple or Dias some one speaks about Bias. Some one abuses the minority or majority.



DO not heed to these tones and you will be fine.



Remove corruption

Do not give the biased a platform

Educated masses think about the downtrodden

Think what you can do to help and stabilise one life, If you can manage to sponsor one poor child decent education. You have served your country well.



Do this and all other vices will disappear.[/quote]

[marko]

i strongly believe that world peace can be achieved only if all people stop taking religion too seriously and allow it to govern their life.
Religion is ok as long as its private and personal, else the followers make it pure evil.

Amen!

[Habitual Perfectionist]

habitual, i think you are completely wrong with some of your views. Talking about sonia gandhi, I would have been completely outraged if she had been the PM of our country. No matter what people my think and no matter how liberal we are, a great country with a billion people will hang it's head in shame to have a person of foriegn origin in the country's premier post, not to mention the fact that she is not even near being qualified for that post.Having a Gandhi attached to her name does not qualify her to become the PM. You say that people did not mind her being the opposition party leader...personally I don't see any relation between her being a PM and her being an opposition leader.The former presides over a band of MPs and party workers.......my two cents to that, the latter leads the country, represents the country.......and I would want to make sure that the person who's representing my country is a true countryman.
Donning a khadee saree and going out among the poor does not make her an Indian.

I stated earlier itself that this was a non-issue. Wouldn't want to elaborate on it again. You may check the link given in the starting post of this thread to check my views on the subect and clarify your doubts.

Eight years of BJP rule did worse things for the country?

IMO, yes!

people voted against BJP instead of for CONGRESS? If I am not mistaken congress as a party got just 7 seats more than BJP.Alliances are a different thing alltogether.

If that's not true, what was the mandate for? Was it for the congress?

You mention Gujrat, I still remember Punjab during the congress rule......

Even I do....I saw this first hand too. Check the starting post on this thread. I mention Punjab too.

They got back to power simply because of their outrageous promises both at the central level and at the state level. Pro-Farmer, Pro-poor? reservations in the private sector?

You talk of Punjab. If you follow Punjab politics closely, you'll notice that every election campaign begins with a promise of waiving farmer loans. And this is a promise that cuts across party lines. As for reservations in the private sector, I bet my ass its not gonna happen.

makes me laugh.......

Do laugh then. Laughing is good for health.

the only reason people pick on BJP is because they have a hindu agenda.does trying to appease the majority make a party a fundamentalist?in my opinion NO.

True. Trying to appease the majority doesn't make a party fundamentalist. But trying to force one's viewpoint through means like primary & secondary education textbooks does make it so. And so does preventing broad minded people from getting into the mainstream.

what happened in gujrat was sad but so was godhra. what happened to the sikhs in 84 was sad, and so was what happened to indira gandhi. I am not trying to support these killings, but you have to agree that we live in a highly sensitive country where people are very emotional.these things tend to happen.it's the people and not the parties that are to blame.

Yes. It is a sensitive country and people are emotional. But the political class is expected to be responsible in such times. The people do not deserve Pravin Togadias and Sajjan Kumars. I don't put the blame entirely on political parties for the mess we are in today. Read some of my posts during election time and you'll understand. People are equally responsible as they are still giving the Togadias & Sajjan Kumars a place of pride inspite of their histories.

If you look back India was doing good under BJP.rural areas were always stagnating, even under congress. congress just tries to appease them temporarily by declaring packages that are a big burden on the country. how long will the tax-paying middle class pay up for the non-tax paying poor and farmers?

Even in our state we have congress coming to power by announcing free power.who is going to pay up for that?the earning class.

As long as they are apathetic towards elections. The poor class votes en bloc. That's why they are the people getting the best of election promises. Isn't it very logical why the middle class, the biggest demographical class in India is ignored when policies are being formed?

get a life folks........CONGRESS as a party died the day Gandhiji was assassinated. it got worse with every generation of the Nehru dynasty.

Ok....I got one. Now what?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Next time you post, keep these things in mind.



1. Be very clear about what you want to write. Your posts are very haphazard.



2. Format your posts so that they are coherent. Use the <Enter> key a little less liberally.



3. If you really don't discriminate, start doing so now.

[Aquarian81]

Im not very fond of too many politicians, at the same time, something about politics sparks my interest. IMHO the bad ones out wiegh the good, and thats how its been.



Mendacity is a way of life for politicians, or else they'd never make it to where they are.

[IdontDiscriminate]

Next time you post, keep these things in mind.

1. Be very clear about what you want to write. Your posts are very haphazard.

2. Format your posts so that they are coherent. Use the <Enter> key a little less liberally.

3. If you really don't discriminate, start doing so now.

You have a point there .... I'll make a note of that next time. My posts are indeed haphazard and badly formatted. Thanks for pointing that out.



I don't really discriminate, I can't even if I wanted to. Like some wise guy had once said "goodness is merely due to lack of oppurtunity and ability". What was that suggestion about anyways?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

I don't really discriminate, I can't even if I wanted to. Like some wise guy had once said "goodness is merely due to lack of oppurtunity and ability". What was that suggestion about anyways?

That was just one of my sick jokes.

[IdontDiscriminate]

That was just one of my sick jokes.

LOL ok, I need to re-develop my funny bone(s).