Will US stop ruling on iraq after hanging saddam?

[Andhrawala]

Hi,

The tragedy in the history had happened. US brutally hanged the saddam. He is the only person in the world who faught against the world police or democracy saver (which US think itself).



Please condemn this brutality

[INDIABO]

They came for oil.......



they got what they need.......



who cares of civil war.....



the war they fought is won........







Bush came in dessert for oil.

Hell goes wats happening on soil.

They want it to... boil

get it in shit business of sect broil



until they leave this nation divided

blooded, battered and mutilated

the lines of boundaries slided



in a way where its oil and no oil





Never seen a nation cursed like

its resources becamethe reason for its destruction





longlive ...................................the soul against ..........the unfightable .......until u .........





Longlive saddaam

[Arch]

Its high time America and the rest of the world comes out of Iraq. It should have come out of Iraq like 5 years back (It means there should have had been no war in Iraq).There's so much of death and destruction. The war did get to put one of the worst dictators to hanging, after Hitler, but again it was not worth so many more lives.



Saddam in fact did not deserve what he got. He should have had been in the jail getting taunted and humilated for what he made so many small children, women and men undergo. He got away with very small a punishment. Hope Allah takes care of the rest of the punishment. Long live Allah.

[mango]

goddamn.. if you're going to try to write a poem, how about you make it a little more coherent? come on now, even crack dealers can write more witty rhymes

[mango]

Hi,
The tragedy in the history had happened. US brutally hanged the saddam. He is the only person in the world who faught against the world police or democracy saver (which US think itself).

Please condemn this brutality

right right.. just like his predecessors like adolf, josef and benito right? shit man, we need more people like them so that they can fight against the world police and its brutality.

[FT]

Mango, see where you are coming from, can't agree less with you.



But dude, don't attack Indiabo's rhymes. Comment on his angst, yes. But his rhymes are his medium.



The gist is coherent enough, a bit raw, but guess comparision to a street peddlar is rather uncalled for.

[ft]

Alright, here's my take on the subject of US in Iraq, and Saddam's hanging.



They are two separate issues. And as such should be treated such.



Saddam shouldn't be the posterboy for any group. His record wasn't credible. His persecution of his own people wasn't a noble act.



But comparision of him to Mussolinis or Hitlers is completely illusonal. While the former set of dictators had an influence that spanned the globe, and their impact affected the peace in the world, Saddam's impact was more localized. Especially so after the first Gulf War. He was emasculated, and as such posed little threat to any sides of his borders.



Considering this, Bush's invasion of Iraq was a folly at best, and a looming disaster at it's worst. World's terrorists who claim to be fighting for Iraq are gaining critical training fighting US forces, getting seasoned, finding funding from numerous sources. Back in US, Bush is obviously having to face his detractors who have gained in influence since the debacle is getting obvious. While middle America largely shares the blame for their unstinted support of Bush during the initial years, the Democrats aren't far behind in their inability to see clearly and effectively oppose Bush on the war.



Once US pulls out of Iraq, sectarian divides are going to come home to roost. Shiites, Sunni groups and Kurds will piecemeal the country. Iranians, Syrians, Saudis, Israelis, Turks and others will vie for their zones of influence in the region.



Best case scenario will imply the situation will get worse through suggested partition, civil war, refugee transfer, and then after the energies are expended, a ceasefire will come into effect that will bring relative peace, albeit an altered middle eastern political boundries.



Worst case scenario, partition will bring in Turks, Syrians, Iranians, Saudis and potentially Kuwaitis into a Great Middle-Eastern war to protect their specific interests. This war could spill over to Israeli-Palestinian situation, and ignite another front of war in that region. Israelis entering the picture might influence Arab street to goad their masters to be part of the problem, thus bringing Egypt, Jordan and other Arab countries into the fracas.



There you have your thousand wala pattakas going off in the middle-east.



Going further into worst case scenario, a many front war involving Sunnis versus Shias, Kurds versus all anti-Kurd forces, Arabs versus Iranians, Israel versus Arab street, will ignite passions globally, destabilizing many countries social situation. Pakistani streets will witness running battles between their local sectarian groups, similarly with Indian streets.



Obviously, the supposed developed nations will not keep silent. United Nations will deliberate over high tea, the massacres, war, refugees situation, et al, but Kofi Annan or his predecessor will isse statements that will remind us of our Indian politicians.



Thus the story will unfold and look ugly.



Good for no one, hence the underlying point is that Bush's invasion of Iraq while a folly, the steps to get out of Iraq need to be taken with consideration, prudence and a degree of firmness.



So, don't pray for Saddam, pray for Iraqi people, but also don't pray for US's complete defeat and withdrawal so quickly that the situation will only worsen in Iraq. Pray for a planned withdrawal, that will still be honorable to Iraqis.

[INDIABO]

Ohhhhh my lord



mango right back from bin.



Mango=latest american patriot=but indian too= cant live over their=changed passport color



See I got one rap song kinda ur american idol eminem hahaha u'll love mango







Got to let u know a bloke

Seems like brain bit choked

No not at all its not a joke



As though like it with vice

His brain is packed with malice

A whole 4 day rotten rice



Know him with penne de fumme mango

ahahahah lol he is not not tango

a whole chunk shit right called tatti

a gun in the hand laugh over as bhatti

enough done said now off inot his chaddi

gotch a idea what he could be

a old coward inot the army of he or she



now getoff surprise its start with his fav morning sandwich slice



oh god i better start use a armour

he have a pig's brain tumour

gravy of thick stuff of gutter

ooh heli wat i see goat shit as mutter

man his mom mom n pop say A blunder





hahahahahahahahha..............loao



Now the first thing u gonna ask

to hit his dirty unwashed arse

where to find this brain blast

and yeah added biggest crass





either u tell or i hit u thrice



one for letting this shit live

other for not doing thats pee

last ought to be as he is neither he or she





ok ok ok



yes find him right in this thread..............



reintroducing the MANGO











hope u'll like round yellow thick stuff( mango )

hhahahahahahah

[FT]

seems like an old fellowship going here between Mango and Indiabo. My apologies Mango. Do your thing.



But have to admit Indiabo is really funny....

[mango]

you compare yourself to eminem? lmao.. dude that is the funniest thing i've ever heard. bar none. i tried to read your joke of a rhyme, but it was neither catchy nor interesting. can you say INCOHERENT? just.. rhyming aint your thing dude. find something else - maybe finger painting? perfect for your IQ bud.



getting back to the issue, i agree that we've screwed things up in iraq and i can't bear to justify the loss of life, american as well as iraqi, but i think saddam's execution was necessary to seem as some sort of progress. i dont see why people get all twisted up over a tyrant's death.

[mango]

seems like an old fellowship going here between Mango and Indiabo. My apologies Mango. Do your thing.

But have to admit Indiabo is really funny....

well, i guess it takes all kinds. glad to finally see someone who knows what he's talking about.

[Andhrawala]

I would like to ask one question to all of you. where did he got these support to kill his opponents. who, none other than America. America had supported his killings till he was useful, later thier seven stars(Oil refinary companies) had put thier eye on the oil wells in Irar. That resulted the war that had happened 2 years back.

Why america interfered in Gulf countries internal issues? Saddam he himself never declared a war against America. But america did it with no reasons.



One thing you know, Saddam is actually a liberal man. In his term as a president, given freedom in wearing of burakha. That he left to his people only. And he gave voting facility to women. That is the only country in Gulf that had given voting facility to women. He was not insisted on dress code in Iraq.

There are somany things but i didn't remebered. You are looking bad behind him. But you are not looking the person who encourged this.

America is doing divide and rule between Sunnis and shias. they are worrying about the shias in Iraq. Again they want to fight against Iran which shias are ruling. So what you have to understand is they don't have sympathy on shias or any other tribes. they have sympathy only on Gulf oil wells. Because Americal is the number 1 in oil consumption.



Last but not least you are telling that Saddam killed children and women. That may be in hundreds or thousands. But if you see how many people died in the war and after war ( American soldiers itself around 4000) you know that who had to punishable first. by the unofficial sources it may around 1 lakh or above In Iraq itself. if you considering Vietnam war and Nuclear attack in Japan in the second world war.what did you say about it? is this not a crime?

[VJ]

The stronger one dominates the weaker ones. This is history. Even the animal world witness the same. How unfortunate. Human life is just the same.



US will not stop ruling on Iraq after hanging saddam. It pretends to develop Iraq and then disguisingly steals all the resources from Iraq. This is what happened in the war. They not only declared the war but also stole all the resources from Iraq. After all Americans are just humans. But not all days are same. And I'm sure they r gonna pay for this in one form or the other in sooner or later.

[paris_dakar]

wow! the groundswell of support for saddam is just something to behold!



The Bush led americans sure stepped on a land mine for whatever reasons and led to more deaths than saddam had accomplished in an average year. now, all those who are singing paens for saddam and whatever he stood for, why? what the frack is wrong is with ou guys? opposing he US position is very legit but backing Saddam? Why don't you wise gys imagine that half of your colony is missing (has vanished) maybe add a couple of your family members too for shits and giggles to keep one man opulent and powerful over everyone. are you guys just dense r is it just our slave mentality?

[Vishrasayan]

I have seen the video on Saddam’s execution...



no special love I have for him but strangely felt bad...may be because it is tough to see anybody being bumped off like that...one could see the sheer hopelessness in his eyes before his neck broke....or was it because the one stubborn man who thumbed his nose at the self-appointed global top-cop couldn’t hold on much longer…..not sure yet…



while watching, I also felt that Saddam surely might have been thinking of all those people he put to death & of what they felt like seconds before they died... can't really call it remorse but still he surely would have re-visited them mentally & lived their agony for a nano-sec….



I am confused ....I do believe dictators should be dealt with severely so that others get the message loud and clear ...however given the sheer size war casualties caused by them, (countless examples ranging from Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq..) I wonder what would one call the US president(s)?.... the leaders who are the paragons of democratic virtue within US of A & war-mongers outside?



will these oil-seeking, self-seeking crass bastards getaway with everything they do on the name of global war against terrorism?...the worst they ever seem to face is some blokes pitching tent before their house (White-House) and holding placards.....(they could’ve tried this technique in Iraq…right?....) And yeah what does one say to half the population that seems to actively/ passively support their War-crazy President’s misadventures...(of course the rest seem to find the voice of their conscience) – THREE CHEERS FOR CHEAP GAS – perhaps !



ponder this…..Saddam hasn’t been convicted for his wars & war killings against Iran or Kuwait or the Kurdish, he has been convicted of murdering a group of Shiite people supposedly involved in a plan to assassinate him….very intelligent & very convenient….Clearly Bush admin says that it is not wrong to kill people as long as the situation is called WAR…..in effect saying in-spite of all the thousands killed owing to the countless wars, USA is beyond reproach and JUST right….



oil for thought...

[long live saddam]

ITS NT AN END..............jus saddam ws nt the target of these bastards,they actually wnt to destroy the whole unity of arab world so tht they cn dominate this world..............if bush ws reli considered bt the brutality of saddam towards ppl then y the hell bush killed those innocent ppl in iraq itself,palestine,lebanon.........its all planned bull shit.......who the fuk is bush to b considered bt whts goinnon in iraq "Y THE HELLLLLL?".....

[paris_dakar]

Finally, some sanity! American policies are dictated by their interests. maybe we need to learn from that. We gotta speak for ourselves as a country and also stop being whores for some charismatic person. dictators around the world mostly start off as someone with promise but that promise soon dies out because power corrupts. We need to keep our democracy alive and kicking and also keeping honing it.

[Andhrawala]

If you can understand Telugu please look into this.This'll show you the Saddam's view in Iraq development.

http://www.andhrajyothy.com/editshow.as ... jan/7edit2

[pavan]

hi saddam

[paris_dakar]

If you can understand Telugu please look into this.This'll show you the Saddam's view in Iraq development.
http://www.andhrajyothy.com/editshow.as ... jan/7edit2

i am reading the article...so far it has been about how the baath party brought about land reform. It WAS good. i will keep reading it but nothing that I didn't expect so far. I have read about the origins of the baath party as a kid, and have also seen footage from iraqi TV eulogising Saddam and his party. This was in the 90's right after the kuwait war.



i would like to ask you this, what do you think about the thousands of kurds who exist only in mass graves now? What is your stand when the only response to dissent is death and torture? Imagine all that in India.



I will say again and again, America can and so bush did. Iraq was no threat to America. What I find Ironic is that the Americans with all their millitary might and media power find themselves in a sectarian mess and are dragging the whole world into it with them, while Saddam, with his "a joke of an army" had an iron grip!!!



Now, should i turn a blind eye to all the blood that was shed to keep it that way in iraq and admire Saddam or really ponder about why things were like that. You seem pretty convinced that Iraq was paradise on earth under saddam. If yes then why are there so many iraqi refugees in the US and europe and in the other parts of the middle east? What was the standard of living? why is it that people brought down his statues with such glee after the invasion? in light of the earlier question, how do you explaing 99% votes in a single candidate presidential election. no prizes for guessing who, by the way.



there are a lot of factors as to why iraq is in this situation; one of the big ones being the iran iraq war. here again the capitalists and the commies played their ever so amusing chess game but does that let saddam or baath party off the hook? how much blood does it take to justify one man's well being over everyone else?



the bully on the block has gotten himself into a knot, now what do we do? beat up the bully, what does that say about us

(as in everybody)? Here's an idea take this opportunity to tell the bully that nobody's afraid and that he's got to change his ways. now, that was all good except ths bully has broken what could've been repaired. Either we help the iraqis in more ways than one...just gotta find out how we can indvidually and collectively. What the iraqi's don't need is the blind idolatry of saddam.

[FT]

Was beginning to think that FH forums are filled with Saddam idolators. Paris~ and Vish~, thanks for trying to provide a saner view of the situation.



But then one has to think from the point of view of the masses whose collective memory is as good as what is today, and their actions immediately are based on that memory.



Let's hope for this then, Bush decides to make an impromptu trip to Iraq, gets kidnapped by militants (can't think of calling them anything else as that might label me as a 'sectarianist').



Then, he's tried on video and hanged. What is recorded is a pathetic human being, humiliated, tortured, shorn of his powers and human dignity. In the video, Bush is heard calling out "Papa... Papa..., I didn't do anything. It was that Rummy and _. Then those bad people made me sign those papers... Papa, I really didn't do anything. I really thought Saddam had those weapons and was threatening to shoot them at us. Papa... save me."



Then he goes on to appeal to some of the FH regulars "Dhakkan bhai, bat for me...................., Indiabo, write me some rhymes................., Andhrawala, I will make your favourite hero's movie run for 1000 days in Washington DC................. but please pray for me as much as you did for Saddam, my old brother.."



Imagine the groundswell of support Bush will get. Then the tables will turn in favor of the US. Someone will shout out in these forums, that the Iraqi militants are out to destroy the unity of Amrikans. They are truly after the abundant toilet paper that grows on trees in Amrika. Toilet paper seeking Iraqis. Toilet papers stealers.





Then the groundswell opinion... Poor middle American fools were taken for a ride, their President, such peace loving, consensus seeking human being. He could barely hurt a fly. What rubbish about his invading Iraq. He knew nothing about it. He was after all an affable 'wanna' be cowboy, who loved his pictures taken of him acting to work on his ranch in Texas, who would be in bed by 8 pm, and would give the best shoulder rubs in the world.



So much for the images.



You know none of this matters. There are bigger things to be concerned about. Andhrawala, how about reading about Global Warming, and telling us how that's going to affect the world, and what we can do individually, and collectively?

[paris_dakar]

i find only the blind adulation of a fallen man quite objectionable.



one a side note, hurrah to ISRO for acheiving such a milestone!! those guys should be rewarded with more funds and leeway...

[Andhrawala]

hi paris_dakar, you mentioned about the kurds in Iraq. That is their internal issue. Any country doesn't have the rights to interefere in their internal issues. You know our country once interefered in the Srilankan tamilians issue and the results of that. If any country will ask you about the freedom of kashmiris will you accept it? or if they want to interfere in the kashmir issue will you accept? so US had no rights to interefere in the Iraq's internal issues.

and if Saddam is really a dictator then one day people will punish him as we saw in case of Nepolian.

And you also mentioned how the kurdish people tortured in Saddam's regime. Then you read this article

http://www.counterpunch.org/colson04012004.html

then you'll know how US will behave. Who is always shouting for human rights(in other countries not in their). And i think you saw the clips that how the american soldiers behaved with iraqi war prisoners in their concentration camps.

Rule is for every one. If saddam had to be punished means Bush should also get the punishment 100 times than saddam. b'cse as i mentioned in the previous message Saddam had killed thousands of people but bush had killed lakhs of people.

But i apreciate the Clinton's regime. He is a good administrator. That time there was peace every where in the world.But now ???????



Hi FT, yeah sure. i'll comeup soon with other problems that the world is facing. Thank you for your suggestion.

[paris_dakar]

you raise some very good points andhrawala but when you talk about interfereing in internal issues you should also consider that it was a UN mandate to maintain the no fly zones before this current mess. labelling something as an internal issue does not mean murder is justified. yeah we have our problems and its not just in kashmir that people want to break away, there are the people in the north east too...if one listens to them, they do have legitimate issues.



i am with you all the way when it comes to the atrocities that the american war machine is perpetrating on the world. they are now dealing with a mess they created in the past fifty years and its very, very sad that its the people of those very same countries that suffered that are still paying the price.



You, on the other hand seem to be soo star struck about Saddam. Speaking up against this injustice is what i want to do but calling saddam's demise as the biggest injustice is just lame. the man had it coming for him. Nobody goaded him to attack iran, nobody goaded him to kill the kurds unless you wanna say that the kurds deserved to be gassed for whatever. the strife between sunnis and shias predates the modern age but that is something forgotten and we dont read much about it in school history books.



here's a thought what do you think if saddam had died peacefully in one of his palaces? you think his nicompoop sons had what it takes to reign in the country? you think iran would've let the opportunity go?

[Andhrawala]

Hi paris_dakar,



Please read these articles about iran-iraq war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._suppo ... n-Iraq_war

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... niraq.html