Usha Choudhary: Married Women Go Nude before Other Men

[Reality]

The question you post is completely wrong and meaningless, under the context. A normal person would always say NO, no matter what the level of (un)dress of a female. The person we are focusing on is a pervert. Let me rephrase it and give my answers:

Right on the point, the people we are talking about is the pervert. So does that mean we stop being what we want be because we are afraid of a pervert. Does the pervert dictate what we should be doing?

A) Would a potential rapist get the urge to "rape" (I hate this word) when he touches a skimpily clad woman (or one who is lying naked under his arms)? YES



B)Would he get the same urge when he sees a "appropriately attired lady"? Maybe, but it would not even be half as strong as with scenario A.

Okay, I can not agree or disagree with that coz I do not know how a pervert thinks. There are perverts who rape 5-yr old girls. I can never imagine to know how their mind works.

That would perhaps answer the Mallika question too. She is not inviting people to r@pe her, but nonetheless is tiltillating them to think about her private parts. She runs a bigger risk of being abused than someone else, who does not expose so much. Which was my point.

A girl who wears skimpy/attractive/etc clothes is not doing anything wrong, she just runs a bigger risk with perverts than a modestly atttired one.

So what are you saying now? The whole arguement was not about risks. The arguement was about who was at fault. If the girl is not doing anything wrong, you are agreeing that the perpetrator is at fault. which was my point all along.

If she was wearing a jiljab and got raped , that must have been a drunk bastard or a psycho animal.

Great sara, now I only hope that you are never caught outside without a hijab from head to toe. It is a lesser crime to rape a non-hijab woman compared to raping a hijab clad woman, so watch out!

Quit quoting out-of context, b!tch!

Being atractive and wearing what you like is not being stupid, and is the right of everyone. Going to a massage parlor which is run by males is stupid, while there may be a thousand others which are run by females and are safer. Which one would you send a loved one to?

Again its a whole different issue. The women in the parlour was not raped. She was secretly filmed which could have happened in a parlour run by a woman too. Or are you implying that all males be considered perverts unless proven otherwise.


The word hijaab seems to make completely sane people lose their sense, so I will now replace a hijaab clad girl with a appropriately attired female, which is what hijaab means. I do not care if you nurse a prejudice against vieled women, or women who dress decently.

[Sharjeel]

The question you post is completely wrong and meaningless, under the context. A normal person would always say NO, no matter what the level of (un)dress of a female. The person we are focusing on is a pervert. Let me rephrase it and give my answers:

Right on the point, the people we are talking about is the pervert. So does that mean we stop being what we want be because we are afraid of a pervert. Does the pervert dictate what we should be doing?

Yes, to a certain extent. Either keep away, or learn to protect yourself.

Okay, I can not agree or disagree with that coz I do not know how a pervert thinks. There are perverts who rape 5-yr old girls. I can never imagine to know how their mind works.

That makes two of us.

That would perhaps answer the Mallika question too. She is not inviting people to r@pe her, but nonetheless is tiltillating them to think about her private parts. She runs a bigger risk of being abused than someone else, who does not expose so much. Which was my point.

A girl who wears skimpy/attractive/etc clothes is not doing anything wrong, she just runs a bigger risk with perverts than a modestly atttired one.

So what are you saying now? The whole arguement was not about risks. The arguement was about who was at fault. If the girl is not doing anything wrong, you are agreeing that the perpetrator is at fault. which was my point all along.

I just did not agree with you on the post in which you said that every lady however dressed, would be at the same level of risk.

The fault is completely with the perpetrator. It is his fault all right, and the lady would not have any fault, except maybe for the fact that she might have been more alert to such people. Being smart is not to be misunderstood with not having freedom. You have to play the averages.

If she was wearing a jiljab and got raped , that must have been a drunk bastard or a psycho animal.

Great sara, now I only hope that you are never caught outside without a hijab from head to toe. It is a lesser crime to rape a non-hijab woman compared to raping a hijab clad woman, so watch out!

Quit quoting out-of context, b!tch!

Being atractive and wearing what you like is not being stupid, and is the right of everyone. Going to a massage parlor which is run by males is stupid, while there may be a thousand others which are run by females and are safer. Which one would you send a loved one to?

Again its a whole different issue. The women in the parlour was not raped. She was secretly filmed which could have happened in a parlour run by a woman too. Or are you implying that all males be considered perverts unless proven otherwise.

Correct. When I was taught driving, my father always told me to think that all the other people are out to die under your car.



This is what smart people do, keep alert.

[Sachin]

Well Reality your thoughts on the topic are strong and correct. But we live in a country where not many professionals cannot be trusted? Lets admit this health industry in India is not good by any standards. We have had stories like these in the past, where ppl seem to lose their kidney's when they went to the hospital to get a minor surgery done.
My say here is that the guy was unprofessional and and and the female should have been more careful.
Coming to rapes and rapists the figures you are quoting do not make sense. It is the most under-reported crime. A rape is a rape do not attribute it to a dressing or mannerisms of an individual.

First, I did not quote any figures. and secondly, you repeated the point i was making. please clarify.

tat was not directed to you .

[CtrlAltDel]

IMO, rape has nothing to do with how a woman dresses. its all about sense of power the rapist enjoys over a screaming and cowering girl. a man who wants to feel that power never hesitates in going for a victim, whatever she is dressed in.

[Ramya]

To say women who dress provocatively have invited rape on themselves is being extremely unfair to the victim (and that is an understatement, if ever there was one). And to say that skimily clad women run a higher risk of getting raped - I think that's an assumption with no basis.



At the same time, in a country as unsafe as India (atleast for women), it's always better to take as much care as possible. Don't stay out late and drive back home alone if you can avoid it...those kind of things. Sadly, with the current scenario, it's a case of doing whatever you want and running into trouble or just playing it safe. I'm not rooting for either option - just saying that it's a choice we make, depending on the kind of people we are. That said and done, it's the guy who is squarely to blame in the case of rape (or any other kind of sexual abuse). there are no excuses for that crime.



Coming back to the case in question, for everyone who said the woman should have been more careful, here are two things worth mulling over:

1. what is the film had been in a parlour run by women? what then?

2. What if it was a clinic and not a parlour? What if this lady had gone to a gynaecologist?



Not sure which side of the arguement I am on but just a few thoughts I'm trying to put across

[smack]

Funny no body questioned the original post where it says 'A beauty parlor run by a doctor'. Now, wtf is a doc doing in a beauty parlor??



And remember the movie, The Accused??



A woman has a right to wear whtever she feels comfortable in. No pervert has got a right to say he raped her because she was titillating.

A rape victim, enraged at the light sentence her attackers received on account that she was of "questionable character" goads a female prosecutor to charge the men who literally cheered the attack on.

The quote above is from IMDB synopsis of The Accused.



U hear lots of people saying, The way she was dressed, that bitch was asking for it. Excuse me?? Asking for what??



As far as the so called scandal is concerned, if I remember correctly, that was guy was no doctor. He was running a parlor where he was filming the ladies nude while they were having one of those beauty therapies / treatment. Some sleazy _ getting his rockers off and may be making some money on the side. But beats me, why women would go to a parlor and get naked in front of a male "doctor". He was certainly no gyneac. And what was THAT treatment that needs full nudity and a male beautician?? Some facts are amiss.

[This says all]

A well-stacked young advertising secretary wore tight knit dresses that showed off her figure, especially when she walked.
Her young, aggressive boss motioned her into his office one afternoon and closed the door.
Pointing to her tightly covered derriere, he asked, "Is that for sale?"
"Of course not!" she snapped angrily, blushing furiously.
Unchanged, he replied quietly, "Then, I suggest you quit advertising it"

[Sharjeel]

Ramya, you answered the question yourself. It is not about what is wrong and right, but about keeping ourselves safe.



If a lady got abused, it is not her fault in any way, but it pays to be safe. It should not be a case of Aa bail mujhe maar.

[Chote_Nawab]

Ramya, you answered the question yourself. It is not about what is wrong and right, but about keeping ourselves safe.

If a lady got abused, it is not her fault in any way, but it pays to be safe. It should not be a case of Aa bail mujhe maar.

I completely agree with sharjeel bhaiyya...

[guilty or not?]

in this case the guilty is woman n for tht wrong she paid{by getng raped} as many persons in this topic told tht even an 6 yr old will think thrice bfr she lays down naked in front of a doctor....and hah here its a woman nt a 6 yr old kid...left bt women with hijaab n non hijaab is tht hijaab is the most safe thing for a woman as told many times a girl with a bikini attracts many perverts towards her its true tht a pervert will get attracted towards ny1 cus of his mind but wen a gal is in hijaab hw cn the pervert c her n get attracted to her?........if these things r taken in the understanding way then cn give answers to many qns if in way of an arguement then they r persons living in dark n will never come out of it

[Akshay]

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/04/26/pakistani-woman-jailed-for-being-raped-in-saudi-arabia-deported/

Sixteen-year-old Isma Mahmood was deported to Pakistan last month after serving six months in shackles and handcuffs in a prison in Saudi Arabia. Her crime: being raped by a Saudi man.

“It’s difficult for me to talk about what happened to me, from rape to prison and from prison to deportation,” Isma said in the office of a rescue trust in Karachi where she sat with her sister Muna, 18, who was also deported.

Yup the bithc Isma didnt wear a hijab and she was asking to be raped.

Isma’s parents, originally from the central Pakistani city of Multan, were trafficked to Saudi Arabia around 20 years ago.

“I was the victim, I was raped and molested but I was named as the accused, and the man who committed the crime was not touched,” she said, hiding her face with both hands in shame…

The bitch hides her face now....where the _ was the veil before the rape. I bet she didnt hide the face before the rape, and she deserves to be raped for that. hail the glory of the rapist for the raped asked for it.

The unnamed man warned her that she would be imprisoned if she went to police, and said that the Saudi sponsor who brought her parents to the country through a Pakistani agent would have them all expelled.

“Once a jail official offered me help and assured me I would be released if I agreed to sleep with him …”

The bitch had the gall to ask forhelp...doesnt she know her safety is her silence in her hijab...apparently she didnt learn that even after getting raped....may she be raped again.

What can I say? Good people do good, and evil people do evil.

This happens all the time and it is disgusting. More people need to talk about women’s rights. We can’t just sit and listen to invaders in Iraq preaching for freedom in the region without start caring for women’s rights.

Wonens right????!!!!!!!! dont these bithces know their safety is in their silence in their hijab, how dare they invite a gentleman's attention by their voice.

[Cragg]

LEts talk abt all the bastards supported by screwed bigotsand blindly biased bastards.



or shud say liberal thinker



world peace activist



freedom seeker



See the full report



http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:scag7HN-NeoJ:www.onlinevolunteers.org/gujarat/reports/iijg/2003/chapter3.pdf+hindu+rapists&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8







Threatened Existence: A Feminist Analysis of the Genocide in Gujarat Report by the International Initiative for Justice (IIJ) December





2003Chapter 3 Centrality of Sexual Violence and Sexuality to the Hindutva ProjectRapes,



especially gang rapes, have functioned as one of the central planks of the sexualised violence that took place in Gujarat. We went to AA5 area. Young men came and started beating us and asked us to leave. Then we went into AA6 area. Again the people from AA6 area people started beating us up. We again started running. We saw smoke, they told us tyres are burning. Lots of women, children were running. We went running there, we saw on the road between AA6 area and the State Transport depot, many girls were stripped and were being raped. Girls were shouting. I saw 4-5 girls being raped… Hindu men AHM14, AHM15, his son AHM16, AHM17 (all from AA6 area) were doing all this…. While raping the girls, the men were shouting har har mahadev.





In AA56 area, D.C.P. Sawani himself entered the house and beat up small girls, beat up women. One woman who was six months pregnant had an abortion. They said, “We will keep all your men and make you prostitutes.” They used real bad words. So then I also used bad words. I told them, “Even eunuchs can use guns, if you are really men I will take you on”. (Nahida, woman survivor, now living in AA32 area, Ahmedabad). There was a lot of suggestive sexual violence, verbal [abuse], hitting women on the breasts, targeting private parts, pregnant women were specifically targeted. The policemen also said that the [Muslim] child should not be born. There have been incidents of children being flung across the room. (Sonia, woman activist, organizations BO18 and BO8, Baroda). Police were also reported to be inactive while they witnessed violence in the most seriously affected places. The State administration colluded with perpetrators of the violence at all levels and continues to do so till today. Investigations into most cases have been shoddy and there are many reasons (elaborated in greater detail later in the report) to believe that the judiciary has also been biased against the Muslim community. Tacit and active support had begun before the violence, which allowed the Hindu right-wing to propagate its ideology among people, carry out its training camps and lay the ground for violence of this nature. We were told in many places that pamphlets produced by VHP and RSS were distributed extensively among Hindus for up to three months before the carnage. These pamphlets called upon men from the Hindu community to rape women from the Muslim community. The pamphlets argued for the necessity of violence and murder of Muslims. According to an activist Lata from AO9 organization in Ahmedabad, a pamphlet that stated, “Don’t feel guilty to rape women of the other community,” was distributed in a Bajrang Dal training camp prior to the violence. The gendered and sexualised character of the Hindutva project associates manhood and potency with Hindu domination of “foreign invaders.” 3.2 The making of “Real Hindu Men” When the brother of Mahatma Gandhi’s assassin,3affiliated to the RSS, was interviewed he claimed, that they wanted to show Indians that there were Indians who would not suffer humiliation– that there were still men left among the Hindus. Similarly, Reshma, an activist of BO8 and BO9 from Baroda, reported: Actually bangles were being sent to areas that were not experiencing violence to incite them into violence. Now there are similar pamphlets being distributed that say that now that we will win elections, there will be time for those people that have not participated in the violence to redeem themselves.The bangles signified cowardice by feminizing the recipient, but they also alluded to womanhood as the negation of manhood and of potency. People in Ahmedabad also reported that Hindu men, including policemen, would stand in line and expose their penises to show that they were taking part in the violence as “true men.” Lata, an activist from AO9 organization in Ahmedabad reported an incident where Hindu men exposed their penises saying: “Your men are weak, we’re strong, you’re not strong enough to _ your own 3Gandhi’s assassination by RSS member Nathuram Godse shortly after India gained its independence is in many ways considered the symbolic founding moment of the modern Hindutva movement in India.

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women.” The police too was party to such attacks as Shazia from AA32 area in Ahmedabad testified: …(on March 1) they set our house on fire and continued rampage. P.S.I. (Police Sub-Inspector) Modi was standing in front of our house. He unzipped his trousers and started making vulgar gesture at women. We were totally shocked and embarrassed. Then we saw that the mob which was standing on the terrace of AA54, AA55 area followed suit. They took off their trousers and started to shout, “Where are the terrorists? Come out now. Call your God.” Hindu manhood thus becomes the violent protector of Hindus, the basis for the creation of a “pure Hindu State” and a means of controlling the Muslim Other. The gender discourse of Hindutva advocates specific terms and parameters for Hindu women’s participation in society as well. Within the context of Hindutva it seems that two distinct female figures are emerging: one that is subordinate and docile and the other that is aggressive and rises to the nationalist call-to-arms against the Muslim Other. 3.3 The “Hindu Woman” The construction of the ideal Hindu woman as dependent on the authority of her father/husband, subordinate, dutiful and sacrificing producer of children is connected closely to the concept of the Hindu woman as guarantor and defender of Hindu (and therefore “Indian”) culture. “Mother India” is a powerful image in Hindutva imagination and in the perception of national boundaries. Although originally the RSS, as a result of German fascist ideological influence, tried to create an image of India as “The Fatherland,” it did not gain much currency. Instead, one of the repeated campaigns of the BJP has been to oblige children, during school assembly, to sing/swear allegiance to “Mother India” or Matrubhumi,whom they must be ready to “defend” like her numerous “offspring” have done in the past. Hindutva forces have mobilized this rhetoric to great advantage by recruiting women in thousands to provide strategic support (cooking food, handling equipment) for men who were wreaked the worst violence that took place in Gujarat in 2002. Women also themselves actively participated in looting and violence during the riots. Safia, a woman from AA1 area in Ahmedabad testified, “AHM15’s daughter was pulling women by hair and throwing them in fire…. We saw women from AA6 area pouring kerosene or some chemical powder so the bodies used to burn.” RSS and VHP camps that offer women training in the use of trishuls and in hand-to-hand combat are becoming more popular. This kind of training and distribution of weapons is also being done in schools. In addition to rhetorical appeals, active participation in Hindu right wing spaces may also attract some women due to the social and, increasingly, political recognition this kind of participation affords. They have been targeting 16-17 year old children since five years back. I know that they have been approaching schools and giving tridents to school children for Rs. 25. They are told this is to protect your religion. If they want to fight, join the militant group that is go into VHP or Bajrang Dal or Durga Vahini, if interested in intellectual work, you can go into RSS. (Aamir, AO7 organization, Ahmedabad). In Gujarat, as in Bosnia or Rwanda, the widespread and furious attacks against women of the minority community were regarded as legitimate not only by male attackers but also by women belonging to the majority community. We heard from testimonies that in some

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[indiabo]

Ashay bro ur just muddling every thing up man....



That was uncalled post of a saudi reference and so get it done by a great rep by cragg



and i too have large library of such accounts and a first hand say as welll



huhhhhhh

[Indy]

Akshay, Cragg, and all the rest of you- the future of India?? So much hatred and negativity. Lord help us all.



I understood neither the point by Akshay nor the counterpoint by Cragg. I will check the veracity of both these reports and if found to be fabricated/ exaggerated will have to see what can be done, because these type of posts unnecssarily inflame passions.



From what I've seen in other forums also, I have no doubt I will be at the receiving end of the choicest English but, I'll be damned if I stay quiet on these issues.

[Cragg]

Akshay, Cragg, and all the rest of you- the future of India?? So much hatred and negativity. Lord help us all.

I understood neither the point by Akshay nor the counterpoint by Cragg. I will check the veracity of both these reports and if found to be fabricated/ exaggerated will have to see what can be done, because these type of posts unnecssarily inflame passions.

From what I've seen in other forums also, I have no doubt I will be at the receiving end of the choicest English but, I'll be damned if I stay quiet on these issues.

PPl of all religions have zealots who follow the religion but not in spirit and there actions bring a bad name to others of that religion.



If some aaa* is bent on posting only those things then it will be payback in same currency.



I dont have anything against any religion but some bigots who think they are l

liberal thinkers

world peace activists

freedom seeker s....etc have to be taken care of , in the same way they understand .



Or if the mods get more active then it wud help keep the DBs clean

[Indy]

PPl of all religions have zealots who follow the religion but not in spirit and there actions bring a bad name to others of that religion.

If some aaa* is bent on posting only those things then it will be payback in same currency.

I dont have anything against any religion but some bigots who think they are l
liberal thinkers
world peace activists
freedom seeker s....etc have to be taken care of , in the same way they understand .

Or if the mods get more active then it wud help keep the DBs clean

Well, Cragg, on the last point I agree 100% and I have spared no effort in that direction. When I was younger, I used to think like you, now I've mellowed somewhat

[Sri]

As per basic medical ethics no patient can be examined totally nude. Even male patients are not examined totally nude.



Secondly there are very strict rules of the profession that says that always a female attendant like female nurse, or female ward sahayak will be present by the side of the male doctor, while he examines the female patient.



So this is absolutely the fault of the doctor concerned.





Now a days the rules have become very strict. If somebody is caught they will loose their job.



A Post Graduate may loose his seat



Another strange and hard point. Ladies especially around thirties are attracted towards the male doctor. They visit the young doctor without much real problems.



Sometimes the young male doctor slips away.



So we (Male Doctors) take extreme precautions while examining a lady patient.



I have heard about some female sex maniacs target young doctors, to get touched and screwed. Finally the poor doctor goes down.



When an incident happens always the female patient find easy ways to escape from the situation by pointing her bad fingers towards medic.



In this case I don’t know who was at fault.



A qualified doctor will never perform such cheap acts.

Only quacks do this.

[akshay]

in this case the guilty is woman n for tht wrong she paid{by getng raped} as many persons in this topic told tht even an 6 yr old will think thrice bfr she lays down naked in front of a doctor....and hah here its a woman nt a 6 yr old kid...left bt women with hijaab n non hijaab is tht hijaab is the most safe thing for a woman as told many times a girl with a bikini attracts many perverts towards her its true tht a pervert will get attracted towards ny1 cus of his mind but wen a gal is in hijaab hw cn the pervert c her n get attracted to her?........if these things r taken in the understanding way then cn give answers to many qns if in way of an arguement then they r persons living in dark n will never come out of it

Ashay bro ur just muddling every thing up man....
That was uncalled post of a saudi reference and so get it done by a great rep by cragg
and i too have large library of such accounts and a first hand say as welll
huhhhhhh

my post is to cut short those who are blaming the lady for going nude in front of men of profession and are prescribing hijab as a solution to the unwanted attention from the perverts.



Indiabo......and to all those who missed the sarcastic point of my post. The point is that hijab or no hijab the perpetrator is to be blamed and not the victim.

[CTC]

Another useless piece of topic to discuss, I feel poeple have better things to do than this.

[akshay try to undersatnd]

in this case the guilty is woman n for tht wrong she paid{by getng raped} as many persons in this topic told tht even an 6 yr old will think thrice bfr she lays down naked in front of a doctor....and hah here its a woman nt a 6 yr old kid...left bt women with hijaab n non hijaab is tht hijaab is the most safe thing for a woman as told many times a girl with a bikini attracts many perverts towards her its true tht a pervert will get attracted towards ny1 cus of his mind but wen a gal is in hijaab hw cn the pervert c her n get attracted to her?........if these things r taken in the understanding way then cn give answers to many qns if in way of an arguement then they r persons living in dark n will never come out of it

Ashay bro ur just muddling every thing up man....
That was uncalled post of a saudi reference and so get it done by a great rep by cragg
and i too have large library of such accounts and a first hand say as welll
huhhhhhh

my post is to cut short those who are blaming the lady for going nude in front of men of profession and are prescribing hijab as a solution to the unwanted attention from the perverts.

Indiabo......and to all those who missed the sarcastic point of my post. The point is that hijab or no hijab the perpetrator is to be blamed and not the victim.

my dear frnd akshay try to understand wht i eman to say!!!c if u say tht perverts r equally attracted to all and all gals start thinking da same way then u know wht will happen?the gals who even wear small clothes will throw them off n move around naked cus they start believing tht either wear hijaab or wear bikini or move naked a pervert is always attracted to u n cn rape u......n left bt the doctor being blamed then again idont AGREE with u cus no one in thsi whole world is so gud tht evn if a woman intentionally comes to him n get naked he will nt do anything right?same way even doctor wsnt able to control himself n did tht!!!!!!

[indiabo]

Indiabo......and to all those who missed the sarcastic point of my post. The point is that hijab or no hijab the perpetrator is to be blamed and not the victim.

i c

If that was ur intention.



ignore my previous reply



thanx